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    • Topic » ZE

    • July 23, 2018 11:55:35 PM PDT
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    • August 31, 2014 9:22:03 PM PDT
    • I enjoyed and was impressed enough with the sections on the inferior functions in this book I'm reading on the psychological types to share them. The book is "Jung's Compass of Psychological Types" by James Graham Johnston. I recommend it for several reasons, some being his competent, wholesome, and effective treatment of the subject. The author relates famous historical figures to a particular function to help the reader better conceptually understand the material; he doesn't argue that the people in his examples had the said dominant function per se but rather the qualities they exhibited and that are discussed can be related/representative of the dominant function in question. A metaphor of a theatrical stage is used to help the reader grasp the dynamics of the functions and postulated constituents of the psyche.

      Feel free to express what stood out to you and if you can relate in the comments replying to this thread.

      FYI. "CW 6" = Collected Works of C.G. Jung, Psychological Types (book)


      "[dominant] Extraverted Thinking vs. [inferior] Introverted Feeling
      'I am fully aware that our age and its most eminent representatives know and acknowledge only the extraverted type of thinking.' - Carl Jung

      A person disposed to extraverted thinking, with introverted feeling as the shadow type [inferior function], may only awkwardly express deep feelings and will likely avoid the the sentimental and poetic aspects of life. He will be cautious about letting the unpredictable, fledgling feeling side of his nature out, for it is beyond his control and not nearly as finely honed as his thinking. He will tend to dislike showing emotion himself and can turn his back on the tearful sentiments of others.

      The 'knock down' battle in his psyche is between Charles Darwin, representing extraverted thinking, and Anne Frank, representing introverted feeling. Anne has the advantage of being apart from the main stage [consciousness]; she can watch the action there, but the lead actor [ego] cannot see her. She performs her role as one who whispers from behind the curtain as the lead actor plays his given role, much more attentive to the actors who share the conscious stage with him. Her disadvantage is that she is underdeveloped and largely inaccessible to ego consciousness.

      To the degree that the shadow is successful in getting through to the lead, she creates a tension that must be resolved. The lead is drawn to reflective soliloquy. He hears a distant voice calling him to another life, but he can't quite make it out. Still the voice of Anne Frank as shadow won't go away and she holds him in check, keeping him from taking his ruling formulas and constructed order to a one-sided extreme.

      Using the comparative categories built in previous chapters, we can better imagine the shadow's subtle but healthy opposition to the lead actor, holding him back from becoming too engrossed in his role, too needy of audience approval, and too much interested in his own acclaim.


      Table 7-1 Te Opposed by Fi
      Orientations of
      Te: Extensive Order ; Fi: Intensive Ideals
      Comments on Orientation: The lead attends to many particular facts and the logical order that might be found among them; the shadow type encourages him to look intently on ideal images.

      Attitudes of
      Te: Perceive Order ; Fi: Apprehend Ideals
      Comments on Attitude: the lead is determined to make logical sense of facts, traditions, and things that he fins on the conscious stage; the shadow type wants him to grasp images of ideals delivered by the archetypal audience.

      Functional Roles of
      Te: Constructive Thinking ; Fi: Idealistic Feeling
      Comments on Functional Role: The lead plays his role constructing logical order amidst the seeming chaos of things as they are, tightening his control with his ruling formulas of the way things should be; the shadow type encourages him to feel his way, to stay true to his ideals.

      Substances of
      Te: Outer Thoughts ; Fi: Inner Valuations
      Comments on Substance: The lead thinks exclusively about what he finds on stage and in the audience of the world; the shadow type wants him to turn to feeling-toned valuations of images delivered from the other side.

      Scopes of
      Te: Particular Order ; Fi: Holistic Ideals
      Comments on Scope: The lead takes life one particular step at a time; he assembles order from many particular facts using his acumen for logic to make sense of those particulars; the shadow type wants him to see the very big picture - to know that beauty and truth as holistic ideals are an important complement to narrowly focused role he is living.


      If Darwin, as the lead, refuses to listen to her soft voice calling him to remember the beautiful ideals that are also part of life, if Anne Frank is shut away and forced to live a reclusive life, then the lead gained full and unrestrained power to dominate the stage with his ruling formulas of right and wrong, good and bad. The stage becomes a desolate place and the meek little suppressed kitten-like shadow type becomes a lioness.

      Extreme Extraverted Thinking
      Jung noticed that the underlying cultural bias of the modern age is toward extraverted thinking. The outer object has been elevated to supreme importance in Western culture, thus likely contributing to the many addictions that plague a culture isolated from its own soul.

      In Western culture, for example, the 'Big Bang' theory is the commonly accepted conclusion to the great cosmic mystery, 'How did the universe begin?' It accounts for one observation - the universe appears to be expanding at a rapid rate - but it fails to account for order and pattern, for the rise of galaxies, for the advent of life, or for the existence of consciousness. It is a simple, clean, no-nonsense answer, now widely accepted, that addresses one fact and then seeks to apply it across a broad array of other facts, where it is forced to fit as the prevailing theory.

      Our representative for this type, Darwin, spent twenty years assessing a multitude of facts to derive his simple theory of natural selection. The theory fits his facts, but as the cofounder [Alfred Russel Wallace] of that theory of evolution noted, it does not explain the arrival of the human species. Darwin's ruling formula, like the Big Bang theory, is phenomena that do not fit with the theory,: the ascent of consciousness, the complexity of cell intelligence, or the propagation of life itself. The opposition from the 'creationist' camp is often just as dogmatic and reductive in the application of narrowly construed assertions.

      When extraverted feeling is relied on exclusively, it loses its potency; it denies the relevance of intangible reality, this missing the whole picture. It gets lost in the detail of empirical observation, creating simplified 'ruling formulas' that cannot account for the full complexity of a question. Rather than ordering and sorting a wide array of facts, particular facts short circuit the thinking process. Thinking seems to spin its wheels, stuck in the mud of its own shortsighted premises.

      The conflict between Freud and Jung had much to do with Freud's ruling premises about sexuality; Freud might offer a biographical example of extraverted thinking taken too far. Jung was born to the opposite side of the compass [introversion]; he was compeled to see life more holistically.

      Normally accomplished at organizing, forecasting, and synthesizing, the extraverted thinking type taken to a one-sided extreme confines itself exclusively to a narrow range of facts and data. Engrossed in the details of a narrow range of experience, it gets overwhelmed by its exclusive focus on empirical facts.

      'When extraverted thinking is subordinated to the objective data as a result of over-determination by the object, it engrosses itself entirely in the individual experience and accumulates a mass of undigested empirical material. The oppressive weight of individual experiences having little or no connection with one another produces a dissociation of thought which usually requires psychological compensation. This must consist in some simple, general idea that gives coherence to the disordered whole, or at least affords the possibility of such. Ideas like 'matter' or 'energy' serve this purpose (CW 6, paragraph 583)'

      The 'simple, general idea,' the framework for containing many facts, becomes a 'ruling formula' that must be applied everywhere. Everything that corresponds to it is correct; everything that does not is wrong. The rich and varied aspects of the outer object are lost to the simplistic point of view that attracts facts to support a narrowly conceived premise.

      Highly one-sided extraverted thinking relies simplistically and tyrannically on the power of its dogmatic formula. The other conceived by extraverted thinking attains a dominating power that ignores the nuanced qualities of life. The ruling formula, whatever it may be, is never sufficient to fully embody the rich and subtle qualities of life to which the complementary shadow is more attuned.

      The more the shadow is repressed, the more partial and reductive the conclusions become. With that suppression, the conclusions are adorned in the guise of infallibility and become an intellectual superstition. The repressed shadow rises up with powerful allies from the unconscious. The inferior type attacks everything that extraverted thinking has sought to affirm and does not shrink from secrecy or deception to accomplish its ends.

      'There are guardians of public morals who suddenly find themselves in compromising situations, or rescue workers who are themselves in dire need of rescue . . . In science there are not a few painful examples of highly respected investigators who are so convinced of the truth and general validity of their formula that they have not scrupled to falsify evidence in its favour. Their sanction is: the end justifies the means. Only an inferior feeling function, operating unconsciously and in secret, could seduce otherwise reputable men into such aberrations (CW 6, paragraph 588)'

      The shadow type's intervention on the conscious stage produces touchy and temperamental suspicions. Traitors seem to lurk behind every certain. Disagreements quickly devolve into contests of personal retribution. Battle lines are strictly drawn: 'Those who are not for us must therefore be against us.' Acrimony, resentment, and aggression may reign for the repressed shadow now screens events and people through a veil of petty mistrust. There is a perpetual tendency to make negative assumptions about other people to invalidate their positions. Those people or those ideas that do not align with the one-sided ruling formula of extraverted thinking are condemned as alien. The individual becomes 'petty, mistrustful, crotchety, and conservative.'

      'His unconscious sensitivity makes him sharp in tone, acrimonious, aggressive. Insinuations multiply. His feelings have a sultry and resentful character - always a mark of the inferior function (CW 6, paragraph 589).'

      The shadow type, now as an ugly imp, is projected by the lead onto others. The individual withdraws personal sympathy, denigrates critics, and demolishes opposition by any means available, no matter how perverse. The more the ego relies exclusively on extraverted thinking, the more fanatical the individual becomes. He must fend off haunting 'paroxysms of doubt' with tyrannical certainty." - pages 218-224

    • November 14, 2017 10:55:42 PM PST
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    • December 17, 2013 9:48:31 AM PST
    • I'm "not" surprised you got an 8. I am 9w8 wich mean I'm mostly a peace maker with a bit of a controlling side to it. I can be hard if needful but I usually keep my comments to myself to keep the peace. This is a contradiction which gives me stress. I have to learn to speak out things that I dont agree with. When there is no good leadership in a group I will take it. I know I am not the most practical leader type neither the most rational one. I might reather be too good to people which will lead to sacrificing too much of myself. A big way to go there :D I secretly do enjoy playing boss :D

      hahaha too emotional and stupid xD Thanks for sharing your little secret with me and well all the rest who reads this topic :P
      Can you send me your email in a private message? I m not posting the full story here on the forum.

      Interesting though, the 8 and 3 combination. I think bouth are more task oriented and less people oriented. My brother is probably a 3 (he's not interested in doing the test). He's a confident guy and it looks like he needs less friends around him than me.

    • December 17, 2013 9:24:24 AM PST
    • Qiwi said:
      Haha glad i could suprise you :D I'm definitely ENFP. I was shocked how well the discriptions and movies on youtube fitted me. Following rules and structure was never my best skill. I don't like rules either, espesically if they are made by an ESTJ ;-) They usually don't make sense to me, at all. They are seldom in a position to explain why we have the rule in the first place. I think I can speak for the ENFP population when I say " If something doesn't have a reason, why do it?" I'm in last year engineering. I need a lot of structure, especially from teachers to get all the information into my head. I learned that the more structure there is when communicating, the better people learn or understand. Thats where the ENFP role comes in i guess, Learning :D Life is way too interesting not to ask a lot of questions. Especially " WHY? " The handshaking thing is not an expectation. The people there usually give eachother a fist (not sure if you can say that in english :D ). I prefer shaking a hand. I find it more stylishly. Sadly enough I think the biggest reason why I do this is confirmation. As an ENFP I do lots of stuff like that. Trying to get emotional respons from anything I say/do. I also dont like to be told what to do. I'll decide that for myself. So in that sense I totally get you :D Taking orders is not my thing ^^ We are getting off topic here, I actually want to know more about the ESTJ. Maybe if I get them better I could have a conversation with them. I would also love to be able to tell them our point of view in a way they understand. Thank you for your reply, I hope I've convinced you I'm ENFP :D

      oh, i didn't doubt your ENFP-ness. sorry if i made you feel defensive. everything that you said made sense to me.

    • December 17, 2013 8:27:07 AM PST
    • 8 and 3 was my nest highest, both pretty high but 8 definitley excelled. Why are you surprised that Im an eight? I think I was more surprised youre an 8 lol.

      "I dont like the sound of her representation ". Notice though its still admitting that the representation can still be wrong by using the word sound :) I will tell you a little secret lol, I dont tend to like females(Im not intentionally mean to anyone though). Lol, they are too emotional and stupid too often. So Im realizing now that that side came out as I was reading about her. Sure I would love to read it, but I will forwarn you if its long it might take a good minute for me to get to it, but it also might not ;-)



    • December 17, 2013 2:34:28 AM PST
    • aha you did not do that test yet. I find it a very interesting theorie. I was about me some books about it. It goes much more in to detail of how people behave and why. I dont know the sexual variants yet. I think it is comparable with the " Sexual - Social - Secure " think on this website, I'm not sure about that though. I'm not surprised you got an 8. I wonder if there are ESTJ's which would not have an 8. Normally you would get a wing type also? so 8w7 or 8w9 or the last option with even wings.
      The enneagram also works with healthy levels and growth points, some websites say if a person is on a healty level they are compatible with all other types. Which looks like a much more addatable system than MBTI, at least for now. I'll spit that out soon enough.

      I think she's 22 now. I might have hit a sensitive point, which I dont know the story behind. In my opinion she totally overreacted so you have a point there.
      "I dont like the sound of her representation " lol for an ESTJ you expressed that very emotional ! I like it ! This afcoors is my (short) version of the story. I'm sure hers will be totally different. I dont consider myself as stupid. I love rational people and their logic, I can listen to it and understand it. I did not hang around with ESTJ enough yet to see theirs enough but for now you are making the exception :D
      "She might not be fully aware of who she is" again you might be right. It happens with the 8 enneagram. I'm not sure if she is one but I definitely dont rule it out.
      I wrote my full story down if you are interested to read it? It's still more from my point of view but it goes more into detail.

      Haha my dad is ISTJ ( pretty sure, never made him do the test) and he is also very dutifull. It also drives him nuts, so that sounds familiar. I'm good at using logic when questioning people but when I start the topic or conversation I 'll be irrational usually.

    • December 16, 2013 5:07:32 PM PST
    • So I took this enneagram thing. Im not sure how to say it, but it said I was probably an eight with a sexual variant. Not sure I understand all the numbers x's and o's... etc lol?? Wait may have just gotten it but would love a boost.

      I do like rules and to give them, but I aslo like people to know why. I grew under arbitrary circumstances and to this day I hate arbitrariness. I just dont like defiance.

      Ha ha you are generalizing, and I can see your logic. She sounds emotional to me honestly. How old is she? She might not be fully aware of who she is, therefore she just goes with the flow and all the bad comes out. I dont like the sound of her representation :-( Every smart guy that has ever met me loves me! The dumb and inadequate not so much haha!

      And yes I talk, type, text, and use expressions to the point. I am very deliberate and purposeful! It does drive me nuts!!!! when one over exaggerates, embellishes, talks up anything. I do like facial expressions and emotions though, as long as its not accompanied with the exaggeration and instead logic, data, rational lol!


    • December 16, 2013 2:28:19 PM PST
    • hahaha Good sensing ! Hell yeah you conquer it will be !! :D Also I dont want to repeat the same mistakes over and over with the same personality types. I think the ESTJ is for me the hardest one to get around with. Learn their thinking, learn their paterns, there might come something better from it :D . Besides that my enneagram is 9w8, so i like harmony and ESTJ's just walk with their feet right true my harmony :P.

      I think you'll find ESTJ's at the police corps, in the law sector and on boss spots. ESTJ's have a good ability give commands and they like rules, especially the ones they make themselves. No questions about the rules they make. "You just follow them". "It has always been like that, so it will be the best way". hehe I'm exaggerating

      How do I know she is an ESTJ:
      I ruled out evryting else. Rational people usually have a lot more patients and a good way to explain to people why they are doing something wrong. Guardians are good at saying what people do wrong but are less capable to tell what you could do instead and have less patients. I might be generalising again here. Idealists are warm and accepting and Artisans are optimistic, warm and frequently impulsive. The breaktrough came when she freaked out on me once because I " talked about her behind her back" . I talked with a friend about what " type " she could be. Just like I did with other people. So yes it was behind her back if she wants to see it that way. The tone which she used, was one where a boss is blaming the staff the rates are bad and the people should work harder. At least that's the impression she made on me. She was definitely bossing me. I don't listen to people who talk to me in that way :D .
      She acts the same way as one of my aunts. On familie parties she regularly stands with her arms crossed, scanning the area. When something has to be done, she commands one of the younger nephews to dress the table, to clean a room ... Every familie reunion the same thing :o

      This are my personal experiences and interpretations of the ESTJ which, hopefully can improve.

      When I talk in my usualy way I use a lot of exaggerations, emotions, facial expressions. I started paying attention to your typing. It is a lot 'to the point' and arouses less emotions when reading. That might be the reason ESTJ's in general won't like my talking. It's definitely no 'objective data' like in the ESTJ personality discriptions.





    • December 16, 2013 1:10:52 PM PST
    • You are subjectively strong, as is she. Depends on the overall goal I guess.

      You say you dont feel like talking to her, but I sense you actually do why you even keep this forum going lol! Could be the desire to conquer, which is understandable :)

      Im not sure that what you do/say is weighed by authority. At least with me, I can categorize. Not many poeple in the world have what Im looking for, so Ive had to learn to appreciate others outside of that. What I hone in on is ones ability to think and emotional state. I cant speak for her or any other ESTJ. I have been working with people all my life though through ministry, sales, counseling, running youth summer progams, kids, and etc. So maybe I have a more rounded approach. I desperately want to meet other ESTJs, but have not yet in my area. Only the ENTJ. It would be nice to meet another ESTJ female, but were not so common. Which reminds me how do you know she is an ESTJ?

      Yes, do not take things from an ESTJ personally. At least for me, I will make it known when I am being personal. There would be no doubt in your mind lol. Other than that, "Im just saying" type thing.

      I didnt quite understand this sentence... "I caught myself leaving out words like " very " , " a lot " and emotions. I never payed attention to it. I noticed just now that it is not 'objective data ' which might be the reason why ESTJ's dont like my talking."

    • December 16, 2013 2:07:49 AM PST
    • so my interpretation was good afther all.

      In the sense that she usually speaks to like 2 or 3 people before and afther training combined. I Want to say hello to evryone and keep the good connection living with as most people as possible. I see a small amouth of connection as a weakness so in that sense I might consider myself subjectively strong.

      Indeed that might be the case, I am a warm personality and I like hugs. I might have liked her a bit too much than was healthy. I did approach her in a emotionally weak state, because that was exactly the case (butterflies n stuff). That was about 10 months ago.
      Those fade away eventually. I'm definitely going to do the assertive talking, if we even get there. I dont feel like talking to her at all xD.
      ESTJ's dont look like warm personality's. Why is that? Do they have a warm side which they hide very well?

      That first paragraph is interesting. So mainly evrything I say/do or talk will be weighed to the ESTJ with the amount of authority I bring with it? No matter what my idea's or intentions are? Perception is pretty subjective so, it is an important lesson not to take stuff that comes from an ESTJ personally, especially for feelers.


      I caught myself leaving out words like " very " , " a lot " and emotions. I never payed attention to it. I noticed just now that it is not 'objective data ' which might be the reason why ESTJ's dont like my talking.

    • December 15, 2013 2:32:27 PM PST
    • "Receptive shift", meaning I wont be as receptive toward you in a couple ways but mainly your authority, ideas, or person as a whole. I have this problem a lot. As soon as I have a different perception of a person, it pervades my mind, and my actions follow.

      Lol I laugh at this, "I do include everyone there, not only the strong personalities"! You must consider yourself pretty strong?

      Talking to her more assertively may work, Im not sure. She may see you emotionally weak, which if thats the case then I dont think it would. Let me know what works!

    • December 15, 2013 2:15:03 PM PST
    • Awesome reply, exactly what I am looking for ! :D I'm going to reread this for atleast 10 times :D

      "but the minute I see you are weaker than me with abilities to think and communicate, or even physical agility or skill, you will see a receptive shift from me. "

      "receptive shift", can you use a different combination of words for that? Google translate is not very helpfull. For now the translation says exactly the opposit of what I think you are saying.

      Only 2 days ago I had a talk with a police officer to check my lamp of my car which I should have fixed. The moment I started talking on my usual relaxed way, she started to mistrust me. Pretty sure she was an ESTJ. She might have seen that as weaker and so started bossing me?

      On the sportsclub I'm very much better social skilled (I see it that way). I do include everyone there, not only the strong personalities. So if I get it right, the moment I stop acting like a wuss and talk to her the way she does the me, that problem will be solved? :D

    • December 15, 2013 9:41:21 AM PST
    • Im not sure about ESTJs in general about being forgiving, but I am. Though I am forgiving, I will not forget, set up boundaries, and try to prevent sometimes the only answer being to avoid or cut off.
      I as an ESTJ, would shake your hand, but possibly see you as competition. I would still be nice to you, and probably try to get in close with you(within the scenario) to dissolve your influence or my mindset if any, and if I saw you as the biggest threat to me as being most notable.
      I dont really play power games, although I can admit I dont prefer to be told what to do. But I love to learn, so if I dont know it I can be submissive. I can say I dont take orders from females well, especially if theyre not like 20 years older than me. I can respect and take orders from men better, but the minute I see you are weaker than me with abilities to think and communicate, or even physical agility or skill, you will see a receptive shift from me.
      Very rarely do I find myself standing with my arms crossed in situations, but when I do its usually means I am uncomfortable first, and gaurded second. I am very conscious though when this is the case, I personally would prefer to be percieved as warm and inviting, as many have told me I am.
      The best way to communicate with me is to be honest, direct, logical, and rational. I dont mind emotions when talking to someone as I have, but I cant stand if it is irrational, illogical, emotional thinking.
      As an ESTJ, I live my life by principle and logic. I let my emotions/feelings take over only when safe.

    • December 1, 2013 2:29:43 PM PST
    • Haha glad i could suprise you :D
      I'm definitely ENFP. I was shocked how well the discriptions and movies on youtube fitted me. Following rules and structure was never my best skill.
      I don't like rules either, espesically if they are made by an ESTJ ;-)
      They usually don't make sense to me, at all. They are seldom in a position to explain why
      we have the rule in the first place.
      I think I can speak for the ENFP population when I say " If something doesn't have a reason, why do it?"

      I'm in last year engineering. I need a lot of structure, especially from teachers to get all the information into my head. I learned that the more structure there is when communicating, the better people learn or understand. Thats where the ENFP role comes in i guess, Learning :D Life is way too interesting not to ask a lot of questions. Especially " WHY? "

      The handshaking thing is not an expectation. The people there usually give eachother a fist (not sure if you can say that in english :D ). I prefer shaking a hand. I find it more stylishly.
      Sadly enough I think the biggest reason why I do this is confirmation. As an ENFP I do lots of stuff like that. Trying to get emotional respons from anything I say/do.

      I also dont like to be told what to do. I'll decide that for myself. So in that sense I totally get you :D Taking orders is not my thing ^^

      We are getting off topic here, I actually want to know more about the ESTJ. Maybe if I get them better I could have a conversation with them. I would also love to be able to tell them our point of view in a way they understand.

      Thank you for your reply, I hope I've convinced you I'm ENFP :D

    • December 1, 2013 11:55:32 AM PST
    • Qiwi said:
      I am on a sportclub and I like to greet evryone with shaking a hand before we start to train. There is this one girl that always rejects it. When others follow her example she finds it funny. There might have been some personel issues in the past and I might have triggered some "sensitive nerve". I'm not sure what it is dough. I might imagine that she doesn't want to give me a hand because she doesn't want to give me respect. I'm not an ESTJ. I don't get their behavior at all. So i would like some insights: ESTJ's are not very forgiving? You like power games where they don't do stuff, the other persons way? Do you like to stand with your arms crossed in a defending way? You have a hard time giving people around you a warm feeling? - if yes -> why? How to communicate with an ESTJ? It is definitely not the best way talking with to much feeling?

      it says that you're an enfp, and i'm a little surprised by that, coupled with your post. i say that because i, an enfp, hate rules, structure, and conformity, so if someone came to me with the expectation that i do something - ANYTHING, let alone that it be the same thing that they were expecting everyone else to do, i'd be put off by it. to me, it would feel like a mild form of coercion, i think.

    • November 27, 2013 7:25:50 PM PST
    • SJs in general tend to stick to the rules (their rules). The mix of the T makes them less likely to be alert to your goodwill and the spirit in which you are offering your hand. As an NF you are more likely to be sensitive to them not wanting to shake your hand and it may not even register with them. Perhaps you did nothing other than stand out or not meet some standard or rule they have about life.

    • November 23, 2013 4:30:17 PM PST
    • ESTJs do like to be in control by organising others. They don't like anyone in a team to stand out from anyone else. So if you are the only person initiating shaking hands then that would not go down well and she would attempt to undermine this.
      ETSJ do not express their feelings although they can get angry. They don't come across as warm.
      ESTJs like to be appreciated for there contribution (but they won't show it). So if you want to hit it off then compliment them on what they did to help the team.
      I am learning about ESTJs because I am interested in one of the female variety.

    • November 23, 2013 5:42:58 AM PST
    • I am on a sportclub and I like to greet evryone with shaking a hand before we start to train. There is this one girl that always rejects it. When others follow her example she finds it funny.
      There might have been some personel issues in the past and I might have triggered some "sensitive nerve". I'm not sure what it is dough. I might imagine that she doesn't want to give me a hand because she doesn't want to give me respect. I'm not an ESTJ. I don't get their behavior at all. So i would like some insights:

      ESTJ's are not very forgiving?
      You like power games where they don't do stuff, the other persons way?
      Do you like to stand with your arms crossed in a defending way?
      You have a hard time giving people around you a warm feeling?
      - if yes -> why?
      How to communicate with an ESTJ? It is definitely not the best way talking with to much feeling?