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    • July 18, 2016 8:21:29 PM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      @TooGeek2bChic Soloread brings up the point I was trying to make (I actually think you touched on this too) - we would absolutely lose an element of our humanity by connecting our minds. But isn't that what we're trying to do to begin with? Alter ourselves to be less destructive, more prospecting and productive?

      Yes, I am proposing a radical idea (relative to social norms now), but there have been countless ideas over the past thousand years once considered radical and now considered ubiquitous. One such concept was the internet, and now we are more connected than ever.

      I don't think humanity will still exist in a million years, but only because I think that 'we' will either die, or evolve by that point. Change is radical. Change is also necessary for survival.

    • July 18, 2016 8:26:20 PM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      @Falkaiarhel If you're interested in how I think the technology could be approached, I can send you materials on research being done now. What I think we would be capable of in the near future is simulation of somatosensory and sensory experiences. Nothing on the scale of 'touching consciousnesses', but a start.

    • July 18, 2016 10:06:01 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      I believe empathy can go a long way in solving the world’s problems insofar as many people would easily change their ways if they could feel the consequences of their actions. Self-awareness should be changing America with every reality show that comes out, but as entertained as we claim to be, not enough of us seem to identify with our own problems. I’m intrigued with the Duke’s idea of collective consciousness. What happens to the divergents you identify who are not affected by the system? To those who will inevitably choose greed or “ends justify the means” strategies? Death? Signing up for such a program would be a hard sell. Being attached to someone having thoughts on a higher level would be detrimental to one’s ego, almost as much any Rational who gets paired with Larry the Cable Guy. Anyone check out Kiznaiver? It’s on Netflix right now, and provides a truckload of ammunition on the subject, fictionally...

      Steam is redefining my idea of INFP. Are you proposing "The Matrix" (can I not italicize?) as a resolution to overpopulation? I thought high density living hit peak efficiency after we brought Ikea to Tokyo. Now you’re suggesting Avatar-like results for anyone willing to remove themselves from “actual” reality? That sounds both humane and efficient. Being able to numb the physical pain of the body would be an incredible option for allowing people to spend the last moments of their lives with loved ones in a virtual world, removing the need for assisted suicide, but that doesn’t begin to cover the Hoardes of WOW junkies who don’t move around much in the real world to begin with.
      I do cringe at the idea of regulating reproduction. The feasibility, let alone the moral ramifications, make for enlightening debate. Could you imagine even a "two child" policy being enforced in America? Take a drive outside any major city and every billboard begins to advertise alcohol, auto insurance, or someone’s view on abortion; it makes "getting drunk and plowing into things" seem like a major form of entertainment. Are you really going to bring up population control to the 2nd Amendment crowd? If China regrets their decision, I consider that a solid case study.(*1)

      I expected more eco-terrorism in the world. We're capable of shooting up schools and shopping malls, blowing ourselves up over religion, but we won't stand up for the environment? I'm not condoning the idea, but it astounds me how aggressively we can act on other priorities.
      That being said, as far as humanity tearing itself apart, I’m going to have to blame the media on this one. Even I feel depressed anytime I catch a whiff of whatever they’re schlepping on Fox News, or any other Infotainment channel. Being subjected to that type of abuse on a continual basis would drive anyone to hate and fear the world they live in. Why do we keep pushing the fallacy that the world is a worse place now than it used to be?(*2)

      Russia and China will soon surpass us in the space race. Now that America has given up, we put our trust in Elon Musk. Although piping Venus greenhouse gases to Mars won’t help us when our sun goes supernova, I keep being told that faster than light travel is not really a thing. Then eventually we’ll need to deal with crashing into Andromeda, and the inevitable heat death of the universe. Although I don't agree with it myself, I can see why people want to put off space travel till the last question.(*3)

      Would I be guilty of multiple avicide if I bring up The Watchman?

      *References (Why are there no hyperlinks?):
      http://knowledge.ckgsb.edu.cn/2016/04/06/demographics/what-does-the-end-of-the-one-child-policy-mean-for-china/
      http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/12/the_world_is_not_falling_apart_the_trend_lines_reveal_an_increasingly_peaceful.html
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3U30wSAV4Q

    • July 19, 2016 6:50:03 AM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      @Baelan Reality shows and other TV have no real substance, how many reality TV series that you enjoyed can remember from 5 years ago? Personally I can't, but I know I watched some, most of those shows have no impact, its a 45 minute program for you to turn off your brain.

      Like @DukeLeto's idea, more or less a type of Matrix. Although as a separate endeavor from the collective conscious, think of more, instanced virtual reality. Yes, the wow junkies ha ha, but see it wouldn't matter if they didn't move around, because they'd have their bodies completely removed. Essentially just Brains in a jar, if you are plugged in all the time, whats the need for a physical body, organs, eyes/face etc. All that would be needed would be a 2ft cube for storing the brain in a vat, and providing it with nutrient solutions and oxygen.

      The idea of regulating reproduction was more or less a stop gap, but @Soloread's Malthusians question got me to doing some Research. Although Malthus had some pretty interesting ideas, He didn't take into account the industrial revolution. Neo-Malthusians takes this into account sort of, but most 1st world countries are not having that many kids, the populations are growing but at steady sustainable rates.
      However 2nd and 3rd world countries, since the 80's have been introduced towards better health care, vaccines, antibiotics, essentially all the things that make a 1st country what it is, are trickling down slowly to the 2nd and 3rd world countries, extending life. Due to this extended life they are kind of having a baby boom, something like every 2 deaths you get 4 babies or higher.

      That's why I brought up Japan's population, they are pretty advanced technologically, and are at a point, which I hope America will be in the next 20 years, where personal accomplishment is highly valued. So their population has started to dwindle, you ask any couple and most of them don't want or are not planning on having children.

      I agree wholly that the Media is a major contributor to people's ignorance. I completely lost faith in any Mainstream news outlet, when I saw an article that was on the Onion, show up as Headline news from Fox, then later i the day NBC and even CNN ran with the story. It was one of those face-palm moments.
      There should be a news station dedicated to showing off the advancements we've made, and the people helping to make a better place. It wouldn't be profitable, but it could definitely help out things.

      I think its hilarious that you think Russia and China will surpass us in the space race. America by no means has given up, if anything Nasa is definitely trying to get more people interested and involved. Regulations for spacecraft development and deployment of satellites have gone down a lot since 2000. Items larger than a certain weight are still expensive to send up into space, but smaller satellites (pico-satellites/micro-satellites) are cheap enough most hobbyist's can start development. It only takes around $8500, to develop a Cubesat, and to deploy it free depending on where your cubesat hitches a ride to space.
      Russia although they have made minor improvements, are still using most of the technology they had developed in the 70's and 80's. They are our current ride to space only because Boeing, SpaceX, Blue Origin, and a few other American companies are still working on their crew delivery vehicles. Not to mention that the modifications needed to setup the ISS to be able to dock those craft. Nasa, Esu, Russia and China developed a Universal Docking port as a standard, that was delivered to the ISS last week I believe.

      Keep in mind this isn't talking about the Numerous American corporations that are getting into developing other technologies for space. SpaceX in partnership with Google is looking at developing a constellation of satellites much like the OneWeb (French Company) to provide Internet to the places that normally wouldn't have it. Google has been testing this technology over the Philippines for nearly 3 years now. Bigelow Aerospace has been working with Nasa on Expandable Living Modules, which it just sent one to the ISS at the end of April. The ISS currently has 388 cubic meters of living/work space, the Bigelow Module (BEAM) after being completely pressurized has 15.9 cubic meters which doesn't sound like a lot, but is pretty significant. Bigelow is currently working on their 2nd corporate space station now, and plans to have a third one started at the end of 2016.
      I could go on and on with space stuff, the race isn't over, and hell it never really lost speed, people just stopped paying attention.

      If you're interested in American Space Companies heres some links: (It is a pretty cut throat business though, My own company isn't up to spec yet to be on this list.)
      http://www.planetaryresources.com/
      http://www.spacex.com/
      http://www.sncorp.com/
      http://www.virgingalactic.com/
      https://www.blueorigin.com/
      https://bigelowaerospace.com/
      http://www.fireflyspace.com/
      http://www.spaceadventures.com/
      http://www.rocketplane.com/
      http://www.orbitalatk.com/
      http://www.interorbital.com/
      http://nanoracks.com/
      http://ventions.com/

      This post was edited by Deleted Member at July 19, 2016 6:55:01 AM PDT
    • July 19, 2016 7:17:36 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      These are all important steps for the eventual handoff to civilians. When civilians can travel through space freely human exploration can begin again in earnest and we will be one important step closer to securing our long-term future.

    • July 19, 2016 1:04:16 PM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      DukeLeto said:
      @Falkaiarhel If you're interested in how I think the technology could be approached, I can send you materials on research being done now. What I think we would be capable of in the near future is simulation of somatosensory and sensory experiences. Nothing on the scale of 'touching consciousnesses', but a start.

      Please do so! I'll be very thankful.

    • July 19, 2016 5:30:15 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      @Steamtech- I have enjoyed not the reality shows, as they tend to hurt my head. If that is what reality is supposed to be like, then we need to get these private spaceflight companies on Kickstarter and start funding now. We've got plenty of monkeys to go around.

      I clearly see the difference between your Matrix and the collective consciousness. It didn't really sink in that we were removing the brains though. That part seems extremely unnecessary to me. What's the need for a physical body, you ask? You wouldn't be called racist for fearing brown outs. Even in the future, relying on a battery backup as a last resort life support seems out there. Other than that, I would imagine many people would be signing up for the system. Have you seen Surrogates (Bruce Willis)? How about an interface like that, or just the Matrix?

      @DukeLeto- Are you proposing some sort of filter for the brain internet, or does this transcend us remaining individuals? I haven't seen Ghost in the Shell yet (soon), but are we talking a shared consciousness like the trill Dax, or are children popping out like Alia Atreides?

      @Soloread- ::childish voice:: "My name is Reverend Robert Malthus and I propose that societies that don't believe in Jesus H. Christ cannot possess the moral faculties to abstain from self destruction!" ::cough, cough:: I'm sorry, that was below me.
      Or maybe it's their third world farming practices that he's criticizing, unable to keep up with exponential population growth? I'd hate to see where he gets his data. According to the girl sitting across from me at a Starbucks in Iowa, an ear of corn contains an average of five hundred kernels and each one of them is capable of producing another corn plant (unless it's from Monsanto). That sounds exponential to me, and apparently that's just common knowledge around here.
      If your curious, I believe the H stands for Hilarius, hence the Pope.

      Back@Steamtech, et al.- At what point do we begin to realize that we're aging longer and intuitively decide that holding off having kids for a few decades isn't a bad thing? The Japanese are patient folk, perhaps our generation is learning that creating a solid financial base before having children is actually possible. I just assumed I had a Peter Pan complex, but many of my friends feel the same way. If I'm going to live to be 120 or more, why would I need to start a family when I'm so young? If Romeo and Juliet were fooling around when they were 13, and then we invented soap and proceeded to get older, maybe we need to redefine the timeframe of a generation.

      Russia and China have come a long way in their space programs, but... well, yeah. Oh man, I guess I gotta give that one to you.
      Impressive web list, BTW. 'Murica! I didn't know this stuff was available already.
      Maybe it's good that all this isn't mainstream knowledge yet. When some of these companies start advertising on Fox, most likely between segments on more rocket fire in the Middle East and another local riot in response to police brutality, I worry they may insight no less reaction than an Orson Welles radio show. I'm torn between being excited to try it out myself and justifying rocketry for public use. The trials of personal space flight bring with them a bit more risk than say, a Segway with a dead battery, but eventually we all came around to trusting them (...except for the owner).

      This post was edited by Baelan at July 19, 2016 5:31:51 PM PDT
    • July 19, 2016 7:56:06 PM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      @Baelan Your ENTP humor is showing haha.

      Regarding the connected minds model, there would absolutely need to be a filter of some kind. Being exposed to the whole of humanity in parallel would be literally mind-blowing. Perhaps there would be an element of locality, where you could reach out to minds in close physical proximity, or go searching for minds. Of course, this implies being able to completely shut oneself out of the system.

      Re-reading your comment though, I don't think that's what you meant exactly by 'filter' for the brain-net. As for candidates for entry, there would likely have to be a minimum mental maturity for entry (as a barrier to permanent psychological damage). So no Alia Atreides, but possibly something close after being exposed.

      'Deviants' or those otherwise seeking to take advantage of the system would be facing the normative majority who are now a very physical part of their own social structure (think: Geth direct democracy). I don't think that would end well for the greedy - that would probably be a behavior trained out of entrants rather shortly.

      I totally agree that empathy is a good approach to solving world issues. I also find that being able to see from someone's perspective is a good path to empathizing with them. I guess that's some of the reasoning behind the brain-net.

      I don't really see this as shared consciousness, so much as shared knowledge and experience. Basically, open-source thought; the most freeing thing that can be done.

      Kiznaiver sounds really cool though. Maybe I'll check it out.

      @Falkaiarhel I'll have some links shortly.

    • July 19, 2016 9:03:31 PM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      @TooGeek2bChic; Most definitely space transport and technologies need to be handed off to Civilians, who else is going to start a restaurant on Ceres, or Space Ice truck water back and forth to Mars :P.

      @Baelan - (So much to reply to lol) - There are quite a bit of space companies trying out crowd funding like this. Kickstarter, Indigogo, and there's like 3 other crowd funding websites that you see posting some kind of either satellite project or tech that's trying to get funded.

      I do fully support both the matrix Idea and DarkLeto's collective conscious idea, they are both needed, and should be developed simultaneously. Also I did think of a way to get around rolling brown outs. Nutrient tanks with brains should have their own power supply, hooked up to the grid normally but can disconnect and retain operation for an extended amount of time. Think of a cross between a large battery, a ultracapacitor array, and an RTG powered sterling engine. (Nasa's design for a RTG sterling engine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_radioisotope_generator - and its sister - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Stirling_radioisotope_generator ) That way if the brain tank's get knocked offline for a bit they can remain alive. Also some kind of Emergency VR simulation would have to be setup for this mode, to help alleviate boredem for the brains.
      Yes, "Surrogate's" style bodies for "Vacations" from VR space. That way the brain can remain in the jar, safe and sound.

      The change that you talk about, getting financially stable before kids, I see that mostly in people between 20 and 30, that haven't already had kids. Japan is kind of in the lead on this as well, people are waiting to have kids till they're in their early 40's or later. This is more common on the east and west coasts of America I think where the larger cities are, I don't know many from my area that are like this, other than some of Anime/Convention/Gamer groups in the area.

      If you think about it, in America anything before 1930 your life expectancy was like 35, and pushing it at 40. That's back when they used to use Turpentine as a common medicine for headaches, colds etc. Average life expectancy now is what 80-90, 90 to 115 in Japan, its ridiculous. Hell, in Japan when they got hit by the tsunami, it was elders above 70 that all volunteered to go in and clean up the reactors, and get dosed with massive amounts of radiation. Their rational, "We're already on the way out, might as well not get the younger kids to give up their lives for something we could do".

      Eventually this will pass down to the second and third world countries but its going to take a while. I think I read somewhere that they are thinking we are going to hit 9 billion people by 2024 or something, hopefully they catch on before then.

      Lol, Yeah, space is definitely "The Frontier", its dangerous, but that's also where all the fun is! The cool thing is, Nasa has open sourced a lot of their technology and standards. Its buried, and difficult to find to say the least. I think for some of the things my brother and I were needing we had to ask some of the main people at JPL for directions. They were wonderful people to work with and gave us a bunch of resources to help us out. Thats where SpaceX got started, and BlueOrigin I believe, they started with the 50+ years of Nasa experience, and went from there. You just have to do the digging to find it.

      This post was edited by Deleted Member at July 19, 2016 9:10:00 PM PDT
    • July 20, 2016 4:51:12 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      I just wanted to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread. I didn't expect it to "take off" like this but I'm glad it did. There has been an impressive exchange of ideas without any drama and that is rare. This has been both entertaining and educational! Maybe I'll introduce some new topics or postulates for discussion in the near future. :-)

    • July 20, 2016 12:05:29 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Currently at CERN they are bending the fabric of the universe with the physics produced from their particle accelerator. Trying to harness antimatter is a big proposition, with lots of risks. Even if our species manages somehow to not blow itself up, tear a hole in space, or release some vial chemical weapon, it is unlikely all of our offspring will survive. By saying that I mean if the governments around the world got space travel down to a perfect science, would they actually want to take all the "lesser people" from the world and let them populate space. Or would they be extremely selective in who was allowed to go to other planets. The sheep of society will definitely be left to perish on earth, while those deemed superior (whether by performance, association, or genetics) will be allowed to procreate on new territories. So at the end of the day... The probability of people whos children and their children's children will successfully carry on their DNA is ultimately improbable. Most of our genetics will be lost, meaning a large part of humanity will be lost. It is a lose lose overall. Either we exterminate ourselves, or we end up bottle-necking the gene pool.

      This post was edited by JaredRuscoe at July 20, 2016 12:07:23 PM PDT
    • July 20, 2016 12:50:31 PM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      @JaredRuscoe - With understanding more complexities of the universe like at cern, and other advancements like the Synthetic dna and bacteria that's being created, there is a huge risk.
      Every advancement we make carries along with it the possibilities of destroying ourselves, the ecosystem, or the entire planet either unintentionally or purposefully.

      Its the risk of advancement, a needed risk. The same goes with space travel, you're talking about massive amounts of time either alone or cramped in tight quarters, not to mention no real showers, or gravity(talking current tech in use). Not everyone would be able to handle the kinds of conditions that most astronauts face daily. You wouldn't want one of those people that freak out waiting in line for 2 minutes in a craft with you for 23 months would you?

      Even civilians will have to face massive hardships when it comes to space travel, orbital maneuvers and planetary transfers take a long time with our current tech. That's why when the Mar's competitions were held, several millions of people applied. It was narrowed down to several thousand, then down again to as few as 15 people. Those few that made it have been in training ever since then, to make sure they can handle it.

      If it were to come down to leaving the planet, in say a major catastrophe that would wipe the surface away. This kind of selection process would have to be expedited yes, but at the same time the gene pool can be further optimized by sending up additional genetic data either frozen or digitized. ( Synthesis of digital DNA is already being practiced )
      In this case, yes they would have to be left to die, on the other side of the coin so would all the high profile people as well, in a spacecraft every milligram counts, and people who don't know at least 3-4 of major aspects of either the technology, engineering, bio/medical sciences, astrology, or maintenance of a spacecraft wouldn't be useful.

      Also the antimatter they create at CERN, would take like 150 years at top production to create a gram's worth of antimatter. So yeah that's not likely to be useful anytime soon ha.

      This post was edited by Deleted Member at July 20, 2016 12:52:37 PM PDT
    • July 20, 2016 1:42:07 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      @steamtech, all good points, but technology is exponentially growing. So at the current limits placed by our tech, yes it would take years, but they are trying to develop larger magnetic containment areas for it (enough to carry pounds). If they are researching the ability to store it in that quantity I imagine they plan on developing new tech to increase production. Antimatter was a star trek joke in the 90's, now its a reality. And our technology is only growing faster. As far as sending up digital genetic code, I imagine that would be the last thing on their mind. And people in power will absolutely be included even if they aren't a useful member of the crew. They wont sit back on earth when shit hits the fan, believe me when I say they would have a ticket out of here, maybe even before some astronauts. The selective nature of the mars mission is unique. With better technology and greater understanding of physics the universe, and engineering, more people will be able to travel space. As technology reliability increases, the people on the ship don't have to be as reliable. Like when I am on a passenger plane, I don't need to know how to fix a hole in the plane, or restart and engine, or even fly the dam thing. Obviously space will be more selective than that, but with where technology is going the "elite" would likely abandon the rest of the populace in hopes of a brighter future. Humans are like parasites to the earth. Why spread a huge amount of parasites to your new paradise? It is illogical.

    • July 20, 2016 1:42:11 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      double post sorry

      This post was edited by JaredRuscoe at July 20, 2016 1:47:23 PM PDT
    • July 20, 2016 2:29:54 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      There will be many small steps before any major leap. This conversation isn't really about "current tech" it's about the future and I think Jared makes a valid point. I don't think the average civilian will see real and unfettered space travel until it is reasonably/relatively safe and cheap enough for the average Joe/Jane, unless there is something forcing our hand (some impending doom). I'd also like to point out that whenever a serious enough disaster strikes our value system and everybody's wealth will be wiped out or rendered meaningless and most likely everybody's social status will be reset according to what is most important at that time for our survival. Obviously certain skills and attributes will be more valuable to our survival than people that don't have much to contribute. If all you have to offer is piles of worthless currency I don't think you will get very far.

    • July 20, 2016 2:36:19 PM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      Technology is growing I agree, but we are coming into a lull, or a slow point in the progress we are making. The materials we currently use to make smaller and smaller microchips stop being useful at a certain scale. Which is why several companies are trying to find newer materials to use to make smaller chips.

      Even though advancements in technology would make managing a spacecraft easier, nothing can run forever, even software can falter over time. So if you had a bunch of politicians and rich people with no experience in a spacecraft, they'd be dead after a while no matter what. I do agree that people in power would do anything to save themselves, but its either die fast with the rest of the population, or die slow as a ship they know nothing about disintegrates around them.

      All we have to do to save this, is setup a ship for the "Special" cases, and they can burn up in atmosphere for all I care. The real scientist and engineers capable of saving at least majority of the genetic data on the planet, would be on a different ship. Again, it would need to be people capable of repairing and maintaining any system or device on the ship, not to mention using those systems and navigating the ship.

      It's kind of tiring but it seems like this conversation always steers back towards how worthless humanity is. Am I the only one seeing this? I mean are you guys looking for a reason to have more faith in Humanity, or are you wanting to be talked out of just destroying ourselves?

      This post was edited by Deleted Member at July 20, 2016 2:44:03 PM PDT
    • July 20, 2016 3:02:20 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Yes, it looks like Moore's Law may finally be catching up to us and it is getting harder to avoid it with every new advancement. We have managed to escape it for over 50 yrs now but, theoretically speaking, when microchips shrink to an atomic level electricity/energy starts doing some weird shit. Particle physics doesn't seem to follow the same rules as the rest of the universe as we know it. The smaller you go the weirder it gets and it's a real problem for the semiconductor industry.

    • July 20, 2016 3:12:29 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      I created this thread because I want to see life (not just humans) survive indefinitely. I think the entire universe strives to be in a constant state of equilibrium all the way down to the atomic level. Humans do extremely terrible things but we also do a lot of beautiful altruistic things as well. I know this is an oversimplified way to look at it but I really do think we are supposed to be the protectors and procreators of life.... at least in our corner of the universe. Statistically speaking I think it is almost impossible that we are the only ones.

    • July 20, 2016 4:10:01 PM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      I agree fully with your assessment TooGeek2bChic, its a really naive thought that we are the only ones in this universe. Billions and billions of suns, with exazillions of particles near and around each one of those. With how simple the building blocks of life are, its a nonsense way of thinking to assume we are the only ones. On this technology level, much more rare but statistically not impossible, others higher than our technology level, probably but extremely rare.

      I also think that we should strive to protect life the best we can, but not necessarily to impede natural selection with species that have not evolved enough to adapt to changes in their environment. There's been new studies pointing out that the initial impact of the meteor that killed off the dinosaurs, didn't really kill everything off. During that event, trillions of species died, however millions still survive. The ones that died out are ones that couldn't adapt well to sudden changes in their environment. Many species moved on to be creatures we see today, birds(dinosaurs of today?), reptiles, mammals, and invertebrates. Some were even luckier and got stuck in a pocket to experience very little change, such as the coelacanth.

      I think its important that we keep a record of what species exist, and have the capability of bringing them back for study if need be, but we should stop mucking up the environment as best we can and let it return to balance, let the ones that will die out do so, as long as we have the record of it we can always introduce it into an artificial environment later on, say a new terraformed world. Down the road of course.

    • July 21, 2016 11:48:33 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      TBH in space travel, our current computers and microchips are sufficient to achieve, but I think the real issue they always try to balance is power systems, our technology for batteries and power is rather primitive when compared to the rest of our technology. And as far as the "special" vessel burning up in the atmosphere, I believe any "special personnel" would not be allowed to fly without a ratio of a few astronauts to one unskilled party. So they'd probably end up just fine. As far as bringing other life from earth to new planetary bodies, I feel like that could have large implications that we could not necessarily account for.... lol.

    • July 21, 2016 1:55:48 PM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      In order for Microchips to work in space for an extended amount of time it has to be Rad shielded. The solder used to connect it to the board also has to be able to handle the temperature swings. Think plus or minus 270 c, or 518 f in the sun and -518f in the shade.

      Things like cellphones can last in space, but only for a few weeks. Anything longer, x-ray radiation, solar radiation, neutrinos, gama radiation and other space debris will probably easily destroy them. Not to mention Neutrinos will restart and short out normal chips, happens to satellites all the time, they are designed to handle it though.

      This is just more for information, rather than adding to the conversation. Cheers

      This post was edited by Deleted Member at July 21, 2016 1:57:59 PM PDT
    • July 22, 2016 2:15:23 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      @JaredRuscoe- I too believe that the work going on at CERN is important, even though it may have the potential to destroy the planet. You would think humanity would have a say in whether or not this should be going on, but if we allow such a vote for CERN, we would have to allow a vote for Monsanto, CocaCola, and many others.

      Isn’t it common to send the lowest form of humanity to the farthest frontier? That’s how we populated Australia and the Koprulu Sector. Okay, bad examples, but just imagine a bunch of useful INTs, sitting around awaiting life without parole; they could be much happier if we gave them something more constructive to do. That being said it doesn’t surprise me at all that there are so many qualified volunteers for these missions. It’s best that billions of dollars in equipment get put in the hands of people without a criminal record.

      @Steamtech(aka NotINFP) - Based on the way our tech evolution has gone so far, I’m not sure if we’ve really disproved Moore’s Law yet. I’m imagining Charles Darwin carbon dating his finches and saying to himself, “Huh, nothing after two years? There goes that theory.”
      You can probably tell us a lot more about “wetworks”. Not referring to your post about the senseless killing of out-of-their-element politicians, but the growing of nerve tissues in order to simulate the processes of microchips on an organic level. Not only that, but with advances in cloning, we may have just solved another part of today's food crisis. Dolly kebabs anyone?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSD0_I1MwqU
      #someonehelpmefundthis #ENTPwomenaresexy

      @TooGeek2bChic- If future tech is spawned from the evolution of developing current tech, there is no way to predict what any of our equipment or methods will look like. Like you said, even our short tread into the quantum has blown us away. In "2015" Marty McFly gets fired by fax machine. In "2264" Captain Kirk is holding a communicator the size of a brick. Even science fiction writers are underpredicting our future tech. I just read an article that says Google's Project Soli is working on the gesture based HUI from Minority Report. Many companies are working on mind control interfaces to make even gestures obsolete.

      Back on topic: Do we presume to know what species will balance each other out in virgin, or worse yet established alien environments? We haven't yet mastered the complexities of the human diet.

      Instead of energy storage, have we come any farther with free energy void tech? Apparently anyone can do it. http://theantimedia.org/13-year-old-inventor-tesla/

      This post was edited by Baelan at July 24, 2016 7:19:19 PM PDT
    • July 25, 2016 8:05:33 AM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      @Baelan - Honestly free energy is a myth and doesn't exist, energy has to come from somewhere, most of the time its a by product of a reaction somewhere. But yes with the right knowledge anyone can generate enough power to be completely off the grid.

      The link you sent, that kid is gathering energy from the atmosphere, (that energy comes from the sun), this is the same tech that a company in New York is working on, although their setup is on a scale of probably 10 times that kid's, Look at Ion power group. ( https://ionpowergroup.com/ )

      The kid's using principles that have been known for decades, the setup he's using in particular looks to be ion collector, although not a very tall one, with a diode rectifier and amplification coil, again all old tech. Ion Power Group has been using the AC version (basically without the diode rectifier), their setup uses 4 130ft poles, with a single collector wire running across each one into a shack. They have Indiegogo campaign to try and build a full scale version of this tech, and are completely fine with getting this tech out there, as in opensource.

      The problem with this tech, is not the cost (trust me its cheap), and not the power generation. Its storing the power, that's where all our green tech has the most problems. Their small setup can generate between 8-12kV of power, if their is a storm that output can be doubled or tripled, keep in mind this is their small scale version. They use capacitors to store around 29kV of that power, but the capacitor bank's are too high voltage it has to be converted using a specialized device to be usable, and half that energy is lost in conversion, by both heat and radiating ions from the spark gaps.

      So @baelen, Grid level storage is really the only thing we need. We can generate power just fine, the extra power that gets generated via solar, wind, waves, or ion, gets wasted. Coal and Nuclear power plants were designed to be able to ramp up and down depending on need. Solar, Wind, waves, or ions change depending on the environment. So wasted energy needs to be stored, otherwise we can't use that energy when we need it. I've talked to many wind farm companies, half of the ones that are setup are not connected, because we have no way to store the power when we least need it.

      Back to the main topic, we can't presume to know what species will balance each other out, we need to let nature deal with that. Look at the cricket for an example, there is a parasite that affects crickets and other invertebrates. It tampers with the brain of its host to seek out water, once the host has found water it drowns itself. The parasite gets out of the host reproduces and the cycle continues, the life cycle for this parasite is much more complex but I'm keeping it simple right now.

      Would you assume to just wipe out this parasite, because its affecting crickets and other insects all over the world? This parasite actually plays a key role in many streams and rivers. Causing the migration of hundreds of thousands of crickets into those streams and rivers, which get ravenously eaten by fish and other aquatic animals. Those animal's waste from that feast go on to produce nutrients for the plant life and other insects, not to mention those animals are hunted by other predators on up the food chain all the way to us. One lost parasite could destroy massive ecosystems. Life is a cycle.

      So for complex systems like this, I'd just assume leave it to nature, its had the most experience with it. However, balancing a system of our own creation on another planet, that would be slightly different thing all together.

      Forgive my comments about killing off "special" individuals or large amounts of the population, mostly those that refuse to help mankind rather than their own skin. I have a really low tolerance for pessimism, and that's the kind of attitude I adopt when there is a lot of it.

      This post was edited by Deleted Member at July 25, 2016 8:13:46 AM PDT
    • July 25, 2016 10:24:51 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      You left out the fact that half the electricity we generate is lost in the electrical grid on it's way to the end users. Also, our electrical grid is pretty archaic and very vulnerable to solar flares and all sorts of other catastrophes that can cause chain reactions that lead to huge blackouts. The more we can generate clean power locally the less we have to rely on the nationwide grid and it will be cheaper, more reliable and less wasteful. I agree that storage is a problem for alternative energy. I can only hope our batteries will continue to improve and keep up with our needs and the rest of our tech. The new surge in "fracking" will keep energy relatively cheep and buy us some time to develop other options but it won't be enough for our long-term needs, and I fear the disastrous impact it could have on our water supply if something goes terribly wrong.

    • July 25, 2016 12:06:13 PM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      @TooGeek2BChic - I agree fully, my brother and I have been pondering the idea of focusing on a local grid system, basically grid power is provided by a generator on site. Blackouts would be localized to a single building, if a backup line isn't installed. Homes would have their own generators, depending on how the power was generated you could easily use the excess heat to warm water. The idea is really cool but major improvements would have to be made to how we handle power, grid infrastructure, and again common greed and corruption.

      I think a system like that would open up a lot of jobs, and could be overall a benefit to mankind.

      I agree that "fracking" has made energy cheep and will keep it cheep for quite a while. The thing that worries me about that though, is the potential dangers related to "fracking", not only to our water supply. Surges in underground pressures, and the voids it leaves behind, we only know a fraction of what kind of damage that's causing. Cave-in's and fissures opening in the ground, not to mention what ever other ecosystems are down there can be destroyed by the process.

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