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  • Topic: A postulate for humanity to consider

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    • July 29, 2016 12:49:27 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      From what I understand, the earth has recovered from multiple catastrophes far greater in scope and impact than anything we could ever cause. I think we overestimate our destructive capabilities. In the last several decades there has been a noticeable increase in vegetation across the globe, and my hypothesis is that our excess dumping of carbon into the atmosphere is feeding this growth. The earth is adapting to us.

      According to most sources, at the end of the dinosaurs' reign, an asteroid or meteor struck the planet, scorching the surface (releasing carbon into the atmosphere from the burning vegetation and animal life) and throwing debris far into the atmosphere. This cloud of smoke and debris spread across the planet, blocking out the sun and resulting in an ice age. I hypothesize that the earth's natural state is far warmer than we are used to, but when the meteor struck, it destroyed much of the plant life on the planet, which prevented the earth from filtering out excess carbon. With much of the sunlight being reflected away by the resulting cloud cover, the planet nearly froze to death.

      We are nearing the end of the thawing phase, we are not destroying the planet, it is simply returning to normal.

      So we can stop worrying, unless it's about pollution and it's effect on humans, then yeah... probably wanna worry about that... XD

    • July 31, 2016 12:24:23 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Even if the earth is returning to it's "normal" state there is no denying our impact on the rate at which the warming has accelerated since the industrial revolution and heavy use of fossil fuels (not to mention mass deforestation). Species need lots of time to adapt (including humans) and we have sped the clock up drastically over the last 100 yrs. If you read my original post I said that we could destroy the planet and ourselves in myriad ways, our role in global warming is only one of many. We may not have the ability to destroy all life (yet) but we could certainly make the earth uninhabitable for ourselves and many other creatures. I think we are most definitely destroying the earth and it's resources in many ways. Even if you are right and we are not responsible in any way for global warming there are still a plethora of other things we are most definitely responsible for that will be the eventual end of us if we don't change our ways. Therefore my postulate still stands: If we can't get off of this rock before the next catastrophic event occurs (such as the asteroid you mentioned) we won't survive it.

    • July 31, 2016 1:25:44 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Welp, I can't argue with that assessment, although I would like to point out that despite our best efforts at mass deforestation, the amount of overall vegetation on the planet is increasing, not decreasing:

      http://www.iflscience.com/environment/despite-decades-deforestation-earth-getting-greener/

      This post was edited by JeremiahMabry at July 31, 2016 6:49:40 PM PDT
    • July 31, 2016 2:43:57 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Thank you for the link (I thought it was very interesting) but even that article concedes that this new vegetation will not keep up with the increases in CO2 that mankind is responsible for. Also, there are more greenhouse gases than just CO2 that plants will not save us from. Methane would be the most obvious one (it is 23 times more potent than CO2) and cows produce just as much as humans but try telling the beef industry to stop the cows from farting/belching...... better yet, try to take beef off the menu and see how well that goes. The Amazon rain forest is being destroyed so more cows can have green grass to eat and that in it's self is like a double whammy. Also, I don't think it's fair to compare the Amazon rain forest to grasslands in Australia. These new grasslands may be "more efficient" at producing oxygen because they require less water but they can't support the quantity/diversity of life that a rain forest does. As far as biodiversity goes it's not even close, more than half of all the plants, animals and insects in the entire world live in the Amazon. 1/5th of all the fresh water in the world is in the Amazon basin and the Amazon produces more than 20% of the worlds supply of oxygen.

    • July 31, 2016 5:08:40 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      I wonder what the tipping point is? At what CO2 level does the heating stop and the cooling begin? Another question, purely out of curiousity, why do you consider biodiversity important? I ask because the idea of seeing what new species will emerge to fill the gaps in a ravaged, polluted ecosystem is kind of exciting to me.

      http://nycevolution.org

    • July 31, 2016 5:56:20 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      What will be the tipping point? Thats a good question but I'm not sure even the best scientists could answer that question definitively. We never know when/what the next catastrophy will be and that is exactly why biodiversity is so important. The more diverse life is the more likely it will develop the traits necessary for surviving a catastrophe. If a particular strain of a certain crop is resistant to a specific threat it will be more likely to survive whereas the rest might die off. We may not have 10 different kinds of corn anymore but at least we will still have corn. The same could be said for all life.

      P.S. Love TED Talks!! :-)

    • July 31, 2016 6:49:39 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Assuming a global catastrophy, you've got me convinced, I can't argue against biodiversity as a preventive measure. However, assuming no global catastrophe, if all the corn were dead, suddenly there is a space that needs to be filled. I like to compare the evolution of ecosystems to the principle (I forget the name) that causes water to move from areas of high concentration to low concentration. It's a pet theory of mine (and knowing my luck someone else's as well), that when there is suddenly an open niche in an ecosystem, natural selection rewards organisms that adapt to fill it. I feel a strong desire to see what those adaptations would look like! ^ ^

    • July 31, 2016 7:29:12 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Your theory has happened many times. There have been extinction events all throughout the history of the earth where species went extinct while others were able to adapt and survive. Filling the open niche is what mother nature does best. It has been a never ending process right from the very first life forms. However, evolution doesn't necessarily require a catastrophe. Extinction could just as easily be the result of certain lifeforms competing for the same resources and evolving to give them the edge. The lesser evolved species would eventually be out numbered and bred out of existence. Many scientists believe that is what happened to cavemen. At one time humans coexisted with them but we were smarter and more well equipped to survive so they could no longer compete with us for the same resources and they went extinct. If you want to "see what those adaptations look like" all you need to do is look in the mirror. ;-)

    • August 4, 2016 9:41:02 PM PDT
    • A postulate for humanity to consider

      Great Topic!!!
      When we say that "We are headed for self destruction" What are we really saying??
      In my humble opinion, we are not talking about a Human extinction, we are not talking about a catastrophic collapse of the biosphere, we are not talking about the planet being blown up.

      I think we are talking about the Catastrophic failure of the system which we use to regulate our selves (our civilization). Granted a failure of these systems on a grand scale would lead to a significant reduction in population and fast. And create a new normal that we might be able to imagine, but that has happened before hasn't it? Roman circa 800 ad. with 11,000 residents, down from 1 million. East Africa at 78k years ago with the Toba eruption.
      The fall of any of the civilizations of the middle east over the past 9K years. Mezo-American Native civilizations. The list goes on ,,,right.

      And at the time of any of these system failures our INTJ forebearers huddled and postulated how humanity would survive the "End of the World"

      I don't believe that our species' survival is an issue. We will make it!! Our Civilization,, It's gonna change, Evolve, Revolve, Our population,, Smaller. Gaia?, She'll heal a bit.

      Will we colonize EXO-Planets?? Sure!! That is an engineering question now a philosophical one. the Energy requirements to Create a Warp Drive bubble according to Nasa's Dr. Harold White are actually attainable in the near future. I'm thinking Huge Solar Panel inside of Mercury orbit and tiny wormhole to move the energy to the Warping space craft.. Again engineering.

      Necessity and our desire to live will make a way for us. It always has and will, until we decide that we are done.

      Finally, do we know or think technological civilizations last 1000 millennia? that is five time our species age. Who knows How long we will exist?? But I think our challenge is to Live well and not worry about the long.

      Great Topic.

    • August 6, 2016 11:25:41 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Hello and welcome to the site!,

      I chose a millennia (it could certainly be less) because I believe if we can make it that far, our technology and understanding of all relevant sciences will be sufficiently advanced to terraform and spread life throughout the universe. I stated in a previous post that I believe that is our true purpose. I believe this will be necessary to ensure not only human survival but the diversity of life in general.

      You mention that civilizations come and go and humans still survive but I believe our population has exploded (because of our technology and knowledge base) and for the first time in our history we are able to have a huge negative impact on the earths ecosystems and resources.

      I believe this impact is unsustainable if our population keeps growing exponentially. We could not only destroy ourselves but the earth as well. This is why I say we no longer have a symbiotic relationship with our ecosystem: our demands will outgrow what the earth can safely provide unless we make drastic changes to our expectations and our overall way of life. As far as we know..... all our eggs (life) are in one basket (earth).

      You are absolutely right that "civilization" needs to be much more civilized!! However, even if we achieve symbiosis and sustainability, it is only a matter of time before something happens that makes life on earth for humans no longer possible, the laws of probability almost demand it.

      As conscious/sentient beings I believe we are morally obligated "to worry about the long" precisely because we can and because we have the power to both destroy and preserve life as we know it. If we haven't found a way to live sustainably somewhere other than earth we can't achieve our ultimate goal of playing "Johnny Appleseed" to the universe. I make no assumptions that we will be able to reach this technological goal before we must......... I simply state that we must.

      This post was edited by TooGeek2bChic at August 6, 2016 12:09:44 PM PDT
    • December 17, 2016 11:59:04 PM PST
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Just to address the first sentence ("Mankind has failed to maintain a symbiotic relationship with the rest of the planet (much less our own kind) and is on a path of self destruction" - yes, that is true. Look into the term veganism as a potential solution to this problem.

    • January 17, 2017 8:15:16 AM PST
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      I believe we already discussed the impact that cows have on the environment somewhere in this thread but you are correct. We need to stop burning down rainforests so the beef industry can continue growing out of control without any real regard for the environment. However, I think mandatory vegetarianism/veganism wouldn't be necessary as long as we are getting our protein from healthy/sustainable sources that aren't going to wreck the environment. I think we can achieve that with both plant based proteins and livestock that doesn't walk around all day eating/farting and doesn't require an enormous footprint of land for grazing.

    • May 22, 2017 3:12:36 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Well as my Plan B, for what I will do after Apocalypse happens, what I don't expect to happen during my lifetime, is offending people, because a country with me as queen, and a group of female ministers, and no wars are made, no hurt is done to anyone, is another word for female domination as some think, I'll be happily editing everything I ever said in this threat. Whatever I'm thinking, once again it's clear, that what is in my head, will only stay in my head from this day forward.

      Let's have fun right...

      This post was edited by Elien1993 at September 15, 2017 11:47:27 AM PDT
    • August 13, 2017 1:33:51 PM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      The only thing this thread makes me think is that, perhaps, thousands of years from now, WE will be the aliens that scare other aliens with our aggressive colonialization.

    • September 13, 2017 8:26:09 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      I agree completely and the word alien is obviously subjective.

      This post was edited by TooGeek2bChic at September 13, 2017 8:32:01 AM PDT
    • September 13, 2017 8:30:27 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Elien1993 said:
      Well, seriously, very nice ideas out there, but anyways I'm still holding on to my plan B. Because, nowadays seriously, when some great guy says global warming is a fairytale, created by the Chinese/Japanese, I'm losing faith in humanity even more. The Amazon forest is still being butchered, the ice is still melting, people still make wars for no other reason than they just like to make wars on each other. Tsunami's are rolling all over, hurricans are coming... and we don't even respect animals like we should do. So yes, maybe if someone of you can change humanity and force them to reconsider their ideas, we will all be saved. But don't hope for it. You better all have a plan B in force. My plan B is very simple. I know someone who can build rockets. I'll make sure all my loved ones with a potential mate, and one pair of every animalspecies and a few plant seeds will be put on that rocket, which will be called Merlin the Wizard. They can fly off to planet Kepler ( probably they will meet with some other smartasses who will do just the same). But anyways, they will get the book of Narnia at hand ( because all religious books stay behind, they can go and praise the Lion Aslan) and we will make the rocket go very fast. They will land on a planet which no other rocket will land on. And I'll make my sister become the Queen. Myself, I'll go hide somewhere in the deepest part of the ocean, with some animals and probably some guy who is very nice and doesn't like shooting. Maybe I can take a gay-guy with me, because he only needs to make babies anyways. Before the ending, I'll make sure I've visited the Loch Ness, and because the world is dying, Nessie will be very happy to accompany me. Just as King Ezekiel from the Walking Dead, I'll have a tiger as pet... next to a lion, bear, elephant, crocodile, rhino, wolf, etc. Every animal that's big and able to fight. When the Earth has returned to a living state, my underwaterhome will come up and I'll be the queen of a new country. I'll build a wall around my country. My country will be protected by the fierce animals. I'll find a chupacabra as well. My country will be called Hellhole Belgica, my capital will be called Flanders, and we will put a sign out there that reads:' From all the people I've fought, the Gallic were the bravest - Julius Cesar. Yes, we can- Obama'. And our national song will be: The brave and fierce Flamish Lioness.... because no one will ever tame us again. My country will only be ruled by women, so I'm sorry for the guys out here, but I'm not going to believe anymore that guys can rule when your sex just destroyed our whole planet. Your sex can pluck the berries, collect the seeds and take care of the kids and do the laundry. But I'm a smart girl, so I'll have a bunch of wapens in my secret library hidden and by that time, I'll have find a way to cheat dead. I'll make myself a pyramide where I will go and lay to rest... till the time comes for some idiot to want to destroy my country. So, when Mother Earth will take her revenge, and God will throw the second tower of Babel down, atleast a small part of our species will be saved. But my point is; probably Humanity will fuck up this planet. But our species will survive, but not in the way we are doing this now. All this war-making, it will be our ending. You can count on this. Don't doubt about what Mother Earth can do to us, you should be doubting our species. If we kill each other, for something so stupid as wanting more land, or kill each other for something so stupid as our gender/ being different. If our presidents/leaders think it's okay to throw nuclair bombs to each other. If people think it's okay to rape, and to torture, what are you thinking about mother Earth then? And as long as we disrespect animals, hurt them, use them for testing... well, the planet of the Apes seems closer every minute something like this happens. Before you start thinking about how we can safe the planet and make our species rethink that, your first thought should be how we make our species hate less.

      I tried to keep an open mind until the part where you blame men (and only men) for all the problems of the world as if all women are benevolent. You are clearly a child that is still living in fairy tales so I won't be too hard on you but let me assure you that women are just as capable of doing evil and horrible things as any man. Do you really think making men subservient to women will cure all our of problems and create a Utopian society??! Did you climax when you finished writing this twisted little fantasy?

    • September 13, 2017 11:00:17 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Edit comment: * and because I like to invent fairy tales, and act childish, I'll go with a joke,' Everyone ever saw Sesamstraat? It's a Dutch tv-show.

      Bert:' Ernie, you have a banana in your ear,'
      Ernie:' What did you say Bert?'
      Bert:' You have a banana in your ear, Ernie.'
      Ernie:' What Bert, I don't understand you cause I've a banana in my ear.'

      This post was edited by Elien1993 at September 15, 2017 11:49:37 AM PDT
    • September 13, 2017 11:17:38 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Elien1993 said:
      I'm just an INFJ, and INFJ like living in Fairy Tales, as realism is just BORING. But instead of saying those things, can you give me a very real example as where women have been so benevolent as men? Because with only saying someone is believing in fairy tales, you're not really proving a point are you? I'm looking towards history, with my statement. We have lived in a world ruled by men... the Vatican is ruled by men. The burning of the witches was done by men. Hitler was a guy. Alexander the Great was a guy. Napoleon was a guy. Julius Caesar was a guy. ( Cleopatra was a woman... but didn't she rule through men? So she only fought guys if I'm correct, and all her hope was put unto her son.... who happens to be a guy as well) Columbus was a guy. So was... every guy who went on the conquer the New World. King Henry Tudor was a guy... killing/divorcing his five wives, till Queen Katherine finally outlived him. Queen Katherine who was so good and so loving towards Henry's children, who he had cast aside, to even take in Elizabeth Tudor after her fathers dead. Yes, Princess/Queen Mary, Henry's eldest daughter and child, was a woman, correct. Who was named a bastard after her father divorced her mother, and married another, who then tried to kill Mary, and had a child to replace Mary. Mary was mostly raised by the actions of her father, because she was taken from her mother, and never saw her mother again. Mary was forced to become an old virgin because of her father... and Mary called upon God ( who is a guy) and the Spanish King ( who is a guy as well) to save her from her own father. So that Mary was mentally unstable that's just somethig everyone can figure out. But her sister, the Virgin queen was a woman as well. And Elizabeth Tudor brought the Golden Age to England. The Cowboys who are known through history, and the kids play when shooting the indians, are also guys. Some even say that the Army is only allowed for guys to fight in, I think that's just BS, but right, some of you guys take this strongly and think only GUYS should be allowed to fight in the Army. God is a guy... so is Allah and so is Yawheh. Jesus was a guy Mohammed was a guy. Hercules was a guy. Yes, the Amazons were girls, but didn't he kill them? Zeus is also a guy, and yes Hera is a girl, but she was hurt and humilated by Zeus because Zeus couldn't keep his pants on? Troy was ruled by guys, but yes Helena was a girl, where guys were fighting for... because they clearly couldn't keep their pants on. Notradamus, Plato, every big name in the history book probably belongs to a guy. Hypatia of Alexandria, was the first female philosopher, and she was murdered by guys... because she was too smart or something. The UK is not making war in this moment, Germany is not making war in this moment. The USA is telling North-Korea to shut up, or you will get a bomb on your head. USA, North Korea, which are ruled by guys... IS is ruled by guys... were women don't have any right to speak up for themselves. So tell me how I'm living in a fairy tale, when I look to history, and see men rulling the world, with many wars. To conquer. To defeat. To be the greatest there is ever known. When they butchered, hunted and murdered the women who could possibly be stronger. And now, you, a guy, are telling me, a woman, that I'm living in Fairy tales, when I'm viewing History and even the actuality. That sounds to me, that you have no real example as to where woman were benevolent, and you are just WAAAY too hurt by my statement to react in a positive way like it is expected from adults. Who is living here in a fairy tale, if that's your only statement? If you would react like this in class, during a philosophy lesson, you would get no point, and you would get on the losing side, only by acting like that. If you can give me a statement, where it's scientific proven that women from nature are as warhungry as men, let me know. And please, be respectfull and don't act childish, telling me I'm living in Fairy Tales, when I'm telling that History proves that men have always acted selfish, and wanted to conquer anything of value, to destroy it. BTW, women were forced to collect berries during the time of the Homo Sapiens Sapiens. We were forced to give birth like baby machines, give the babies food, care for the babies, don't do anything else that sit at home, sewing clothes for the babies. When guys went to take Jerusalem back, the women were forced to stay at home, and wear a chasity belt. But those guys were free to rape every woman they could get their hands on, and were free to have as many mistresses they wanted. But women were not allowed to have an affair, because ooohhh nooo. Let's talk about all those awesome Kings with their hunderd mistresses, and about all those queens with... oh wait, Queen Kitty and Queen Anne Bolyen lost their heads, because someone did tell they had an affair. The Only Queens I know who didn't lose their head because she had lovers was Cleopatra ( who commited suicide), and Eleonore of Aquitaine, who was send to a convent. Yes those convents and abbeys, and temples to put women in, were so in the market. I'm not sure how many women joined a convent later on... So when I'm saying that guys should now collect berries, raise the kids, and take care of the kids, I'm living in Fairy Tales. So... what's so bad about collecting berries, raising kids, and taking care of the kids? Men forced women to do it for many centuries. But guys can't handle to do it or what? So it's nice to force it on a women, but no way it should ever be forced upon a guy. You sir, are greatly bringing your sex in disgrace! I'm sure I could get many male INFJ's - even the ones who aren't living in nice fairy tales- to speak up for men in a normal way, without insulting someone from living in Fairy Tales only because they watch the history and come to the conclusion that guys should be the next to take care of the kids. I'm waiting for the kind/nice guys to come over and explain me as why men should still be able to rule... You better stay off commenting, before you disgrace your sex even more sir-fairytale-who-can't-act-like-an-adult. I can totally say that Barack Obama for a example is a guy that gives reason as why guys are also good in ruling, just like Pope Francis. King Arthur who is a fairy tale, oh I'm so sorry, I kinda lost it again. So fairy tales aside, which guys were good at ruling, without the need to kill a thousands? Fairy tales aside, which girls were good at rulling, without the need to kill a thousands? Let's just count them, because I'm so damn childish, that I just like to play games. * now I'm off to get my male friends here, so they can EXPLAIN IN A NORMAL ADULT WAY WITHOUT OFFENDING SOMEONE as to why GUYS SHOULD STILL BE ABLE TO RULE. Pha ridiculous. *

      You are a hypocrite. You want to subjugate the men in your fairy tale in the same way you criticize men of the past for doing it to other people (not just women). I'm not saying the men of the past were good leaders..... I'm just pointing out your blatant hypocrisy and how sexist your original statement was. Now you want to turn it around like I'm the one being sexist?! lol Subjugation is not a viable solution for humanity and women oppressors aren't going to be any better of a solution than male. I have no problem with feminism or women leaders. Don't even try pretend like I'm the one being sexist here. (when it's clearly you)

    • September 13, 2017 11:22:33 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Also, I voted for Hilary and I think Trump will be one of our worst presidents ever........... just sayin!!

      P.S. I also voted for Obama twice!

      This post was edited by TooGeek2bChic at September 13, 2017 11:24:13 AM PDT
    • September 13, 2017 11:24:44 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Edit comment; because some people think I'm a hypocryth, and I'm against guys, I've only one thing to say to that: The songtext of K3, in Dutch language... because I don't want to translate

      Van Afrika tot in Amerika.
      Van op de Himalaya tot in de woestijn.
      Van Afrika tot in Amerika.
      Ja, wij zijn zoveel mooier als we samen zijn.
      Strek je hand naar me uit, leg ze in de mijne.
      En laat ons dromen van betere tijden
      Is je huid donkerder of bleker dan de mijne.
      Laat ons proberen elkaar niet te vermijden!

      Niemand op straat spreekt je aan, ziet je staan.
      Waarom doen mensen elkaar toch zo`n pijn.
      Zou het niet beter zijn als wij voortaan.
      Verdraagzaam zijn, verdraagzaam zijn.

      Van Afrika tot in Amerika.
      Van op de Himalaya tot in de woestijn.
      Van Afrika tot in Amerika
      Ja, wij zijn zoveel mooier als we samen zijn.

      Hand in hand! Oog in oog!
      Alle kleuren van de regenboog!

      This post was edited by Elien1993 at September 15, 2017 11:52:05 AM PDT
    • September 13, 2017 11:29:27 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      eeeehh just edit

      This post was edited by Elien1993 at September 15, 2017 11:52:25 AM PDT
    • September 13, 2017 11:35:27 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      History speaks for itself and I'm not here to argue it. The whole point of this postulate is to point out how flawed "mankind" is and how we need to change on a whole if we want to survive indefinitely. All of mankind is guilty for where we are not just MEN! I don't know why you are acting like I'm going to dispute any of your argument about the male gender having a poor record as leaders. Get all your fact checker friends here and fire away...... YOU'RE ONLY PROVING MY POINT!!!

    • September 13, 2017 11:44:42 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      I never said either gender should or shouldn't rule..... you did!
      I think mankind should be relatively free from government..... you are the one looking for payback in your "Utopia" with the subjugation of men.

    • September 13, 2017 11:46:41 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      and again edit

      This post was edited by Elien1993 at September 15, 2017 11:52:42 AM PDT
    • September 13, 2017 11:57:50 AM PDT
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      A postulate for humanity to consider

      Let's edit this as well, because I don't want people to get the wrong ideas, and misunderstand me...

      Do I know another joke? I don't think so... because jokes are mostly a bit rude, especially jokes between Belgium people and Hollanders.

      This post was edited by Elien1993 at September 15, 2017 11:54:12 AM PDT

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